I've whacked Leopards with my SU-5-1 but didn't have much to do with the vehicles. How is this true for any vehicles? I am sure that these questions are on many peoples' minds and you are asked at least some of these questions often. 5. For anyone who has ever played War Thunder and certainly for those who have perused the forums, the line Germany suffers! is probably something youve heard before. Meanwhile, in the real world, while the Tiger II is waiting for its gun to steady to take a shot, the Centurion Mk3's stabilized gun lets it point precisely at the tiger's turret-face with swift ease. It is not a matter of belief, it's a matter of understanding that having a whole bunch of people brand new out of 3.0 in 5.X is a problem. Other options like FW's with 1000kg bomb drops are just too bad in a fighter role, as well as the Me 262 Pulkzerstrer. You don't exactly want to pull a pivot turn when in city combat, with it's horrible side armor. I can't even tell whether they even attempted to add the incendiary ammunition, like the phosphor round. The complaint is one thats pretty common for all nations--uptiers. A Pz IV F2 can also lol pen a KV-1, Churchill or ARL-44 and probably knock them out with one shot from either front or side. You cant carry against so many players. The reverse speeds of all of these tanks mean you must step forward progressively, rather than figuring on advancing and reversing on a whim with them as you would with others. Again as stated before in other threads it is an option it is not viable in most instances as you typically just die. Threads 63 Messages 220. . For special purposes I still have my Ju-288 with its two SC1600 bombs. - If its not, he will hide and wait till you cap. As said above, aircraft carriers don't exist in arcade. I'd love to hear an in depth explanation of why you think that. I've said that I'm looking at things that are perceived as suffering but aren't in the interest of finding and isolating the true examples for sake of fixing these things. Thats because the Germans don't have more modern light tanks in the game. Germany suffers (and others too), balance, br, tanks, jets, etc. I invite others to list other claims of alleged German suffering so that those can be talked about. Just an endemic lack of knowledge of what assets are available to the Germans. Relative merit is in play here. And no matter what is the br setting whatever times you get a new vehicle even at 8.7 you have to start the whole thing again. Removing the Panther II made sense if the game was aiming for historical accuracy. I invite others to list other claims of alleged German suffering so that those can be talked about. Depends on the BR really. Uptiers are a pervasive issue for every nation at one point or another, with the severity of this problem varying widely. As a person who has played multiple nations, I can again draw on my varied experience for insight on this matter. Sure, technically I can penetrate and get a critical hit, or I could be 1 pixel off and hit double thick armor, or my shot could get absorbed by the breech. Those three qualities are what control the tank's ability. It has a good gun, but it is about as slow as it gets, not to mention it makes the panthers reverse speed look fast. As a seasoned German player, I can tell you their firepower is at least as valuable as the Allies' speed. Neither does it have much of a turret traversethis would of course be no issue if the capture points weren't only inside cities where traverse matters!). If you check old war images of M4 tanks, you will see that not all of them had turret mounted .50cals. Germany is being denied their AA roof mounted guns because "They would make no difference". I've heard that damage output might be linked to vehicle tiers and the Puma is just rank 2. What will you bring? Yes but this is should be fixed for once and for all. It kind of creates this all-or-nothing theme, which is kind of sad if we're trying to have a serious discussion here. Penetration analysis is bugged with AP and APDS. As for the Panthers' turret traverse, except for the D variant, all are quite well suited for engagement at medium to long ranges. It is almost exactly the same as the normal Tiger II, about the same play time yet it has a 47% WR compared to 43%. It's not a perfect strategy as it weakens the cheeks, but I've had a lot of smart american players turn their turret at the last second for an easy bounce. 20112022 Gaijin Games Kft. Most matches against germany is like this, constant spam of Me 262's, arados, Do 335's, He 219's. So many BS planes capable of taking out 5-10 tanks before running out of ammo (but you know, US CAS is soo OP) Worst thing about it, allies can't do shit back. (well until last update and the introduction of M41). What is the Caernarvon? For Centurion Mk.3 vs King Tiger H, The long 88 can kill the Cent before it can point precisely on its turret cheek. And the T30 which has a 30 second reload on a 200mm round penetration is sad to say the least and in my opinion off that its worthy if 6.3 due to that fact but thats a different discussion. If he sees that you do dare to cap he will just rush back because he has the speed. He will command the rules of engagement and the battleground not you. In an one on one battle with one cap point andrough, uneven terrain you will lose against the M18 in your panther 8 out of 10 times. Wouldn't you agree that having a small and fast vehicles helps immensely to flank? All of these things are important, with at least one being exceptional for a vehicle to be any good generally. Background: I am a guy who plays all nation with Germany being my single most played nation. Up until only pz 2 is miserable a bit compare to m3 or bt7 etc. Next is allied CAS which gets thrown out as another massive problem Germany faces, but it really shouldn't be since Germany has objectively the best CAS in the game all the way up to 8.0. It takes about 0.5-1s to stop but experienced player can fire earlier - APHE just needs to hit center-mass of a Centurion to kill it. Despite the complaints about Germany's WRs, they're not bad really. Is this what we might expect at some point? The Panthers' reverse situation is one that's not terribly extraordinary because poor reverse speed is a commonplace of many tanks--particularly those of the British. Powered by Invision Community, Addressing Germany's real problems: finding the truth behind "Germany suffers!". No matter how well you argue or what evidence you cite, you will inevitably be attacked by the people who cling to beliefs of German victimhood if you speak out against it--the believers dont want to hear dissent--just know about that. Call me when it has the bombs and rockets just like the allies. The problem here is that Japan doesn't have a lot of players and thus meeting japanese aircraft is pretty rare in RB. This puts Germany in a lose/lose position when choosing their plane to call in. Sohow exactly do I do that? Thus, links were forged between the crime of public nuisance and the tort of private nuisance at an early stage in the development of the common law. As if the game and the race to the capture point ends the moment they get to it and then it just sits there waiting for the Panther to roll in. Isn't it also truethat many of the people who play the american tree only play the US tree? Germany has a p-47 just like the allies? What plans do you have to try and tackle this issue? The Tiger I is hard to play and inferior to the Panther! Not enough apparently the M41 appears to be shrouded in mediocrity that is the M41. It requires however quite some skill to shoot targets in RB from a far and you still lose if noone caps. Ugh. With a fast tank it is easier to get to places and to take advantageous positions. Which he can only do if he knows where you are, you can't flank what you can't see now can you. There is 0 reason why an AD-4 or P-47 should be causing you any issue. When you do see them, they won't make up 100% of the team composition and they won't even make up 100% of the UK composition since there is a chance for there to be Charioteers and Cent Mk 1s to be thrown into the mix. All in all, these things boil down to the sort of trade offs that are to be expected. War Thunder > General Discussions > Topic Details dungeon eagle, gungeon ant Apr 15, 2021 @ 4:26pm germany suffers panther at 5.7 (it should be higher) Last edited by dungeon eagle, gungeon ant ; Apr 15, 2021 @ 4:52pm The author of this topic has marked a post as the answer to their question. I agree though that the lines should be redone, but not only for Germany but for all the nations. the Jumboturret. Like I said earlier I think it's important to take a step back and realize what we are talking about here isn't just a drag race but definitely more complicated than so. AMX-13 GETS UPTIERED 6.7? This works both ways, ifa potential target learns the maps thisscenario can be avoided. That being said I wanted to ask them to get answers, because for me it is important. Yes, but we should be discussing balance based on tanks that are actually in the tech tree. 7. Plus there are only few maps thatfavor this strategy. Isn't it a bit dishonest to completely "forget" to bring out the more negative aspects of the panther? If it's perfectly fine as a comparison, then why is CQC fighting the rulewhen GJ is designing maps,while we clearly can make it a more interesting battle if every nation can face their strengths and shortcomings on the battlefield. An uptier will barely affect the performance of an M18. Interesting, unless you are talking about the driving comfort of the crew I thought we had a couple of long discussions on here where you said main gun bounciness compared to stabilized tanks like the Sherman series are negligible. Only if you let him, if you did the smart thing you will set the rules of engagement and battleground long before they even considered such a thing. Armor profile is meh also and they are abit slower than the tiger 2s surprisingly. question. It's just that the slow/tall/heavy tanks are usually on the bad end with the current level design. The T-72 is mediocre in forward mobility, and has a painful -4kph reverse. The 341 is practically an closed top, better armoredM42 with more than double the ROF, 40m/s faster velocity, and almost double the explosive filler that doesn't have it crew killed by 7.62s and doesn't explode from a stray bullet hitting it's exposed ammo. There is a great deal of difference in comparing the significance of gun handling of two medium tanks and that of a lightweight TD and a heavyweight medium tank. That jump is massive and not only deprives the player of the relevant experience they'd get in that 2.3 BRs of progression but also of the lineup for support they'd have if they had the stuff from the BRs in between, As with other nations, one death leavers are a problem for Germany. Meanwhile, a king tiger hull down has 185mm frontally(with no trolly double layered spots or crazy angles), 100mm on the sides and 80mm on the rear, and it's ammo is stored in the turret for an easy 1 shot. Germany has so many vehicles that some are clunkers and others are very OP. Oh definitely trade-offs are to be expected. I mean this thing has a chance to kill KT frontally by spamming around the turret ring and it can take out the gun barrel within 2-3 shots.When the M41 of a German player is destroyed, well you can go panther which is not the best when it comes to maneuvering, or perhaps a puma which can get shredded by .50 CAL. Germany's problem,at least when it comes to ww2 vehicles, is lack of brawling vehicles past 5.7. This line comes up in many venues and references many things--but what does it mean? The real question would be if you can deny the enemy taking the capture point from long ranges, which would be a resounding no. pzkpfw ii ausf l luchs 37mm war thunder official forum. Allied CAS i superior. I "like" how you start out this topic with some kind of meme-theme, that there's nothing to it more than it being perceived as "suffering!" Those three qualities are what control the tank's ability. A dreaded sight for aircraft and ground vehicles alike, the F-4F Phantom II provides a strong air superiority fighter and supremely potent ground attacker to German pilots. Germany has access to the P-47 the same way the US has access to the 109 and 190. Absolutely you're right on that point, but let's turn the tables here for some perspective. You can't aim when they shot in your direction. It's obvious which has the better hull where as its obvious who has the better turret. Originally posted by kamikazi21358: Originally posted by theGoddes: brits are nerfed into the ground. If anyone has any genuine strategy for killing T__ I'm all ears. Just an endemic lack of knowledge of what assets are available to the Germans, 20112022 Gaijin Games Kft. Arado B-2 with 3x 500kg bomb as light bomber. While an M18s speed might allow it to get to a point a few moments before a Panther would, the M18s lack of armor and less capable cannon burden it if something like a Panther arrives shortly thereafter. But only at long range. And since most Panther drivers know that, they usually just camp. Only part of Germany that suffers is really top tier air. And I've never had issues with the breach on a T series unless I've hit the outside of it or its well past 500 meters which is were the 88 will struggle you can still go through the hull of it but need to be more cautious as a whole. Be always aware of this. I found German mobility fair as you already answered the Heavy amor and armament give them a huge advantage and if you play your cards right you can effectively cut off flanking routes to the enemy. Once he has spotted you, you are basically dead. But to the long 88 you can kill them rather easily. The tracks make it immune to long 88 and actually work as spaced armor against HEAT. Ferdi is 7.0 and I did managed 17 kills a match. Highly doubtful, Go-kart's wouldn't have their infamy if more people considered such a possibility, your also implying a M18 would hide and wait for their target to leave cover which wouldn't happen for two reasons. Those T-Heavies are redicoulus. Not being able to be constructive in any way seems key to yourself. Besides, Panther II mounts the long 88 so T__ tanks still can and will bounce it with ease. There are things the T series better and the game tends to play to those advantages mord than to the tiger 2s but the differences between the two aren't much trust me on that one. And it is this knowledge that will the panther driver often stop from advancing beyond certain points on the map, because he thinks: " There is probably a M18 on the enemy team and based on my experience and knowledge of the map I know that beyong this point there is a high chance that the M18 is somewhere on the edge of the map behind a hill and is waiting till I leave my cover. Oftentimes, if left unharnessed, the cannon birds have better potential to destroy multiple targets. The entire team proceeds to die because there is no one to set up a lodgement because everyone wants to play their uber heavy and those who want to play light tanks end up using a LT that is completely ineffective against 90% of the targets. That's where the Panther gets stuck due to bad low speed mobility. Nope, reversing back takes forever, turning as well and will expose your sides, running forward to flank doesn't work either. Now the GER 6.7 lineup is missing a proper medium to counter some of the russian meds. This trend follows most nations and Germany is no exception. - Panther armour is easier to use and still ok. No need to angle, just point the front towards the enemy. And I've never lost my barrel to 50s ever in all the time I've played German tanks. Example, an M18 is freaking fast compared to a Panther or any other German Tank of that tier. People wildly overstate the extent of this. All trademarks, logos and brand names are the property of their respective owners. Every time I play 5.7, I see a lot of Tiger I. And no I wasn't talking about the swingfire I mean the 7.7 german raketenjagdpanzer 2 literally fires the same missiles as the STRV.81 (which also has a gun) and yet sits a whole BR higher for some reason. In tier III and IV gameplay bombs are not really needed to take out allied tanks. Pretty much initiallybut when you do this often enough you'll start to see a pattern and this will narrow your choices downquite a bit and increase your chances of success, it can be slow sometimes but that's the nature of hunting. Not meta. For instance: in the M18's case, this is manifest in its far greater bounciness. Or this amazing times when you play the tractor simulator trying to get you slow vehicle to this surprising spot which takes you forever, and hoping that noone shoots or bombs you on the way there. Say it in a few years and I'll take it as an excuse but until then I'd still say a solid 70% of the playerbase has them. Panther 2s didnt disappear. This is of course a burden if you're in a CQC situation where the APDS will easily pen your frontal armor. And the Tiger 2s consistently bounce shells they are by no means slouches and have a thicker hull than the T series which will say no to most rounds that fly at it outside of apds which can be angled to avoid for the most part and or heat. Still more enjoyable than japanese start off. - Panther is a medium tank and cheaper to spawn. Because heat rounds don't care about armor. Making it for the M18 much easier to make assumptions about the position of the Panther than vice versa. Which means all you need to do is spot him first, then he's basically done for. You won't have the same luxury. If you spot him first and don't manage to kill him with the first spot you are dead even if he can't pen you from the front. Lets assume competent players who don't gamble. Bouncing for when we are talking about the gun of Hellcat (especially the 90mm), Marder and Archer. 0 capable AA's, meanwhile germany is literally spoilt with choice. There's also the issue of the T__ having 6 crew all very well spaced apart, so if by some miracle I get lucky enough to do damage the T__ will just reverse away at high speed and repair. It should be 6.7 or 7.0 at best. Slow vehicle that suddenly appears. There are many, many more ways in which Germany is claimed to suffer--these are just a few that I chose to address for this first post. And the you said the atgms you made it sound like they were common place. And I've had 90mm HEAT non-pen on the tracks of a T34. Also, most capture points are arranged such to allow for substantial firing work into/out of them from such ranges. With enough skill and fine tuning, you could push your plane past it's normal usage by other players who do not use MEC. If by any standards the Panther is far more stable due to its suspension, what does that make the Sherman series, especially in a CQC situation where the medium low speeds are to its' advantage? T28 with 305mm of frontal armor at 6.3? Furthermore, using simple math, after 2 Minutes the number of places where the M18 could be is much bigger than the number of places where the Panther could be. How do you bounce on a flat piece of armour? They die as soon as literally any heavy pulls up and just the purpose of giving the enemy free RP and SL. What? If you liked it, feel free to sub. they're glass cannons. FW 190's can go for air targets and ordnance is sufficient to bomb a tank and strafe lights. Alternatively they could bring in an ground attacker with a better CAS loadout, but in turn be utterly outmatched when it comes to fighting for control of the sky. And here comes the issue with uptiers. Getting ahead is stupidly hard. Just check the loadout on allied planes. Are there plans to finally separate ww2 (and pre-ww2) vehicles from post ww2 (like vehicles made. And that brings me to the issues with the economy, the game's economy is soulcrushing, now I do understand that you need people to spend money (and for what it's worth I have), but there is little to no enjoyment for the average player in the game. I am sure that these questions are on many peoples' minds and you are asked at least some of these questions often. He usually has like 5 different options. As a mainly (90% of battles or more) German player I have to debunk one thing. While the M18 can reverse much quicker, it also lurches about far more. Denying that problem only makes it worse. What makes teams such an acute problem? Are you serious? Also, you're making it sound like the T__ has bad hull armor, which it absolutely doesn't. The Panther, by contrast, is reasonably quick for a medium tank, retains decent armor and is vastly better armed. He can easily continue flank and pen King Tigers from the side. To believe that mobility is the only thing matters is to ignore almost everything that matters in a match. Germany has some of the best CAS, the best SPAA, the best light tanks, and just the best overall line up at 6.7 yet they are generally performing in the range or sometimes below that of worse nations at the same BR despite facing the same threats such as France, Italy, and Japan. The Me 410 B-6/R3 is considerably more competitive than people think. Forming a wide line and covering each other.

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